<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>Sorry for the nerd joke. I need Courtney around to wave me off some jokes.</div><br><div><div>On Oct 28, 2011, at 4:56 PM, Inez Cobb wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
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<div style="MARGIN: 4px 4px 1px; FONT: 10pt Tahoma; WORD-WRAP: break-word; webkit-nbsp-mode: space; webkit-line-break: after-white-space">If I was smart enough to know calculus I might could digest that. Sometime you guys are way over my head. But I am loving trying to keep up. Ha Ha<br><br>>>> B. Heath Robinson <<a href="mailto:heath@midnighthour.org">heath@midnighthour.org</a>> 10/28/2011 4:48 PM >>><br>
<div>One thing I know I can grow in is really addressing life from scripture. We have a tendency to start giving mere opinions when we talk about topics and issues. This discussion is a good example. None of us has mentioned scripture yet. I think this is one reason we tend to see this as an either/or issue instead of a both/and issue.</div>
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<div>I do think it will be hard to give someone a full picture of how the gospel impacts our lives in one visit even if we are at our best. We really don't want them to see that we are passionate about theology or bible study to the exclusion of the gospel, but this most assuredly happens in some places.</div>
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<div>My only hangup about getting what is in the lesson and then applying it is that it takes me a while. In my past experience, the group dynamic gets better the longer we spend together in any given meeting. I think this is because sometimes we think we have gotten what is in the lesson and then find out that we may not have once we start applying it. Unfortunately, because of practical constraints, we just don't do that because we don't have time.</div>
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<div>Unfortunately, dinner discussions rarely function as the application part of the group. There are interruptions, and it just goes against the grain. We'd naturally prefer people to stay out of our sin and to stay out of other's sin. It can be both a conscious objective and a cultural habit. I think doing this will take a concerted effort, but it is probably worth it.</div>
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<div>Maybe gospel without application is like math without numbers. It's calculus.</div>
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<div>On Oct 27, 2011, at 2:42 PM, Inez Cobb wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<div>Can you disagree with the pastor? </div>
<div>Yes it is all about the gospel that is very correct, but is the gospel really that hard to understand? Is it not in the application of the gospel in our daily life where we get hung up? Since you guy are so good at picture illustrations here is a feeble one of mine.</div>
<div>Teaching the gospel with out life applications is like teaching math with out teaching problem solving.<br><br>>>> David Rapp <<a href="mailto:david@redeemerprestemple.org">david@redeemerprestemple.org</a>> 10/27/2011 12:19 PM >>><br>Good thoughts, both of you.</div>
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<div>Our goal is most definitely to bring the gospel to bear on the realities of day to day life, and to do that in community, the context God has given us in which our growth in sanctification is to take place. I'm very encouraged by things taking place in our group and by things I am hearing from others in different groups where people are growing in open relationships with one another (that whole "intentionally intrusive, grace-centered" kind of relationship). And I agree that we have lots of room to grow and am confident that as the gospel is continually applied to our hearts it will bear that kind of relational fruit.</div>
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<div>Our goal is not just to "get THROUGH the lesson", but it is to GET what's IN the lesson, namely the gospel, and THEN to apply that to practical life circumstances.</div>
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<div>For those who have gone through our Intro to Redeemer Class (membership class), you may remember the "Rocket diagram" which illustrates what our primary focus is to be. The "engine" and body of the rocket are Scripture and the gospel (things like justification, adoption, sanctification, etc.). This is what we need to be ABOUT. There are ethical and theological issues on the wings of the rocket (things like our approach to Halloween) which are important things for us to think about, but NOT what we want to be our primary focus or define us.</div>
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<div>The "tree illustration" also gives us helpful direction in this. The "soil" is the Word. The trunk of the tree is the gospel. These produce the various gospel fruits, one of which is cultivating a biblical world and life view.</div>
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<div>We WANT to develop a worldview that guides our thinking about things such as Halloween. But this falls into the realm of the APPLICATION of the gospel to our lives. We have to have a solid understanding of the gospel to be able to apply it to various issues.</div>
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<div>This is why we are using studies that focus on the gospel. So, there IS an agenda. We DO want to get through the content of the studies, not for the sake of checking off a box, but because it's what we want to build our lives on, be shaped by, and have shape our church culture.</div>
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<div>Then, I would suggest, we can take opportunities to apply the gospel together to issues of life - like work, fantasy football, Halloween. We usually share a meal together for an hour on Sundays and this would be a perfect context for these kinds of discussions in the worldview realm.</div>
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<div>One caveat/warning: As we seek to think biblically together about various aspects and issues of life, we MUST maintain our focus on the gospel. It is all too easy for groups and conversations to be "issue-driven" rather than "gospel-driven".</div>
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<div>When you invite your neighbor to visit our community group (or come to a church party), we don't want their greatest impression to be: "Wow, these people are really passionate about . . . Halloween (for or against), gun control (for or against), cloth diapers, etc." We want them to say: "Wow, this Jesus person really means everything to them and His teaching impacts all of their life."</div>
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<div>Call me Captain Wordy</div>
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<div>David<br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 10:45 AM, B. Heath Robinson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:heath@midnighthour.org">heath@midnighthour.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">Oops. I meant to reply to all.
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<div>On Oct 27, 2011, at 10:45 AM, B. Heath Robinson wrote:</div><br>
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<div>I absolutely agree. I am always interested in bringing the Gospel to bear on whatever is going on in our lives. As far as the topics go, I see them like recipes. Someone made the recipe up, so there is no reason why someone else (us) can't change them as long is the goal is the same. I don't want to become a fantasy football league or romance novel discussion group.</div>
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<div>It makes me think of Shayor's sermon. He said he want small groups because he needed friends. In all likelihood, we all need more help applying the things we know rather than help knowing more things. This is the area where friends really help.</div>
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<div>That being said, we do have a lesson each week. The leader has usually done some preparation. If no one derails him, he will probably go with the plan or just whatever is interesting to him. Not everyone is wrestling with the same things at the same times. For me, the hardest part of a group that deals more with what is going on in our lives is that we actually have to know and share what is going on in our lives. I'd say that takes time, but I really don't believe that. It takes freedom. It can be the freedom that comes from trusting another person or freedom that comes from trusting God.</div>
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<div>One analogy might be dealing with authority. Sometimes it is easy to have peace when you are under authority. This is usually when the authority is good and is not particularly holy. Sometimes it is hard to have peace. This is when the authority is bad and is really the same as the first case. True peace comes from putting our trust in God and not the current state of the authority.</div>
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<div>I am praying that our group does grow in this direction. I would exhort us all to be more willing to share and to ask questions. I'd say that our group is a safe place, but in very real ways it is not. It is principally not safe because God is there and he often has a radically different agenda than we do.</div>
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<div>Thanks, Inez. I really appreciate you.</div><br>
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<div>On Oct 27, 2011, at 10:24 AM, Inez Cobb wrote:</div><br></div>
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<div style="MARGIN: 4px 4px 1px; FONT: 10pt Tahoma">I really enjoyed David's new letter received today and the other comments. I wish that our small group would take these items as they come up to discuss them, instead of rushing thought an assigned lesson. Who cares if it takes us a little longer to complete the lessons. Small group should be a place where we do not have to be so strict. If someone has a need or question we should be able to slow down and care for that. Just my thoughts wondering what everyone else thinks.</div></div>_______________________________________________<br>Onebrother mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Onebrother@midnighthour.org" target="_blank">Onebrother@midnighthour.org</a><br><a href="http://mail.midnighthour.org/mailman/listinfo/onebrother_midnighthour.org" target="_blank">http://mail.midnighthour.org/mailman/listinfo/onebrother_midnighthour.org</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>Onebrother mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Onebrother@midnighthour.org">Onebrother@midnighthour.org</a><br><a href="http://mail.midnighthour.org/mailman/listinfo/onebrother_midnighthour.org" target="_blank">http://mail.midnighthour.org/mailman/listinfo/onebrother_midnighthour.org</a><br><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all">
<div><br></div>-- <br>Rev. David Rapp<br><br>Redeemer Presbyterian Church<br>Temple, TX<br><br><a href="mailto:david@redeemerprestemple.org">david@redeemerprestemple.org</a><br>254-760-4246<br><br><a href="http://www.redeemerprestemple.org/">www.redeemerprestemple.org</a><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
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